THE ONLINE SERIES OF: THE COVENANT CHRISTIAN CENTER
THE ONLINE SERIES OF: THE COVENANT CHRISTIAN CENTER
POWERED WEST AFRICA FAITH BELIEVERS' CONVENTION (WAFBEC) 2020 (LIVE CHATS WITH FATHERS OF FAITH)
GUEST FEATURE: DR. MENSAH OTABIL (GENERAL OVERSEER OF INTERNATIONAL CENTRAL GOSPEL CHURCH (ICGC) ACCRA GHANA)
DATE: 22ND APRIL, 2020
The Program was Anchored by Pastor Poju Oyemade - The Senior Pastor of The Covenant Christian Center, Lagos Nigeria.
Alright! You are welcome.
We will go quickly to the Questions - I'm sure you need no introduction to our audience, Dr. Mensah Otabil here;
I know he will not agree totally to what I'm about to say. But he is one of the Wide read Pastors in this Continent and in the whole world. I know with all humility, I'm sure everybody agrees.
Sir, I want to tell you, the kind of Questions they were sending in for you, one would have thought you are a Medical Doctor - you are an Expert in Infections like what is happening now, the Covid-19 (Laughter!)
I had to tell them, he is not a Medical Doctor, how is he going to know the Infections, and now Corona virus (LAUGHTER)?
But one would expect as a Pastor who is wide read with many years of experience; you know WHAT TO DO.
QUESTION: Please Sir, What are the things you do CONSISTENTLY that has helped you to stand out in Ministry, which you would like to share with the Younger Generation?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
It's an honour, it's an Honour!
Meanwhile, I don't think I did any of those things with a clear idea that it was going to lead to something. But I know that I had always been a thoughtful person.
And I spend a lot of time THINKING; asking myself questions and trying to answer them! Trying to figure out things in my quiet moments.
So, one (1) of the things I have done consistently is spend QUIET MOMENTS.
I definitely like READING, and so that has also being a Practice of constantly engaging my mind.
And I also developed a PRAYER HABIT very early in my life; and Constantly Trusting God and Seeking Him and Waiting before Him.
So, these are some of the things I have done Consistently and still do!
QUESTION: Alright! Since you got to the area of Books, I just want to ask you:
What are Three (3) Books you would say, are the most Influential books that you read?
Now, we know the Bible is No. 1; but outside of the Bible; Three (3) Books that Influenced you greatly.
DR OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
It's a difficult question to answer, because different Books have touched me different ways, and different Aspects of my life.
I would say that there is a Book called "IN HIS STEPS", that came some time in the 1960s or 1970s; About a group of people who decided to Practice 'THE CHRIST' in their Community.
And the Effect it had on the Community - Transforming it; when you walk in the Steps of Christ, and live for Him daily.
So, that would be a Significant Book, because I read it when I was young in Faith. And it formed my own understanding of how Christianity should be Practiced!
And I think David Wilcoxson's Book - "The Cross in Switched Plate" was very influential;
Because it helped me to see what happens when a simple Person trust God and steps out to do what God is leading him to do. And it played a very important Role in my Christian formation.
David Wilcoxson himself was a Major Influence in my Christian thought.
And of course, C. S Lewison's "Mere Christianity' which I read years ago, was apologetic for Christianity which helped form me.
These are Books I read very early in my life and in my Christian life. And I would say Influenced much of my Christian thoughts.
... Alright Sir!
NEXT QUESTION: Someone asked: Your Sermons are a blend of Deep Revelation and Theological Research! How do you Study and Prepare your Message?
.... How do you go about it?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
(Laughs!) I do it the same way you do it, Pastor Poju (Both Pastors Laughing!)
I'm constantly preparing a Message (2ce)!
There is no time that I'm not preparing a Message; whether I'm sitting behind my Laptop, or I'm driving.
... Everywhere in my life, there's a Message cooking in my heart!
So it engages me one hundred percent (100%) - In my sleep, I'm preparing a Message, I'm thinking through a Message!
I don't Preach everything I'm preparing; because most things I start Preaching, would have being things I started working on probably a year ago, two (2) years ago, sometimes five (5) years ago!
But I have given it a lot of thought, I have given it a lot of Reflection! And sometimes I start putting my ideas down, a year ahead of time; two (2) years ahead of time, five (5) years ahead of time!
... And start working my way through, until I Preach it!
So, I don't usually just get up in a week and prepare a Message to Preach it - It would have been something that has be ruminating in my heart, in my spirit for a pretty long time.
Normally before the Year ends; by the middle of the Year, I start putting down my thoughts for the Next Year - the Messages I want to Preach: and these would be things I had thought through for quite a while!
So, I spend time, I spend quite a bit of time Preparing!
But my main Preparation for a particular Massage to Preach on Sunday, would normally start on a Tuesday - That is when I start putting my Ideas down, and build on it Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday!
QUESTION:
... Alright! Maybe let me just add something;
So let us assume when you want to Teach; let us say on: "Financial Prosperity", I think what they are trying to say is that - You demonstrate an understanding of the Bible, but a grasp also on the Financial System.
So, may be the Question he was trying to ask is: Do you read Books about 'Financial System' as you are Studying on the Scriptures of Prosperity?
Because when you Preach, somebody who is a Businessman knows that this Person understands what we are doing!
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
It's the influence of YEARS of Study!
So it's not really when I'm going to deal with the Topic that I start preparing towards it.
It's a long process; it finally ends in the week when I have to put my ideas down.
By the process; I read a lot of Books, I read a lot of Business Books. I read different kinds of material. I read almost everything.
... Definitely not junks!
But I read quite an extensive and expensive section of Books!
So if for example I'm Preaching on 'Finances'; I'm trying to figure out something!
I would have began thinking about it, probably a Year ago. So by the time I started putting my thoughts down, I have thought about it for quite a long time!
QUESTION: Alright! This is a question that has to do with Covid-19. And the Person says;
As Leaders, how should we prepare the People; and what Key Messages should we be passing unto them to prepare them for the changes that would take Place - Post Covid-19?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
Nobody knows how Church would be like, Post Covid-19. We can imagine, but we don't know for sure.
It could be that we would go back to business as usual; it could be! - That is one (1) option.
But this Pandemic has been very seismic, in its effect on me the whole world, that I don't expect we would go back to business as usual.
I think one of the things that we have learned from this, is how to stay connected with our Church and our Church Members.
The connection is even more important than Messages because there comes a time Message is not enough. You need to connect to your People.
And so we have to deepen connection; Fellowship, Relationship in our Churches! Our relationship: Physical Relationship, Mental, Spiritual, Emotional connection.
We have to use everything, for Relationships Development; we have to form Small Groups. Because what has shown out of this is that the most effective way to keep connection to your Church is through small Groups;
Members who are already on our WhatsApp Platforms, Departments, and so on: That will be the most critical Factors to hold Congregation together.
Our Messages are disembodied now - We are Preaching to the Air. But what is keeping them is the Fellowship.
And so, one (1) of the things I expect to emerge out of this, is that Churches will become MORE Relational; and relationships are going to become major!
I mean, if you look at the Early Church when they went through Persecution, and the Church was on all forms of Persecution; they couldn't meet in homes. They kept Fellowship through Relationship.
The Underground Church in China, in Russia, in the former Eastern Block; all of them kept themselves together through Fellowship and Relationships.
And this Pandemic has taught us: Preaching is not enough to hold our Churches. Relationship is what MUST hold our Churches.
And I think the Church would start thinking of the Welfare of our People! Because what has shown out of this is that just when people don't have a Salary or a Business for about a Month; their lives almost collapsed!
So most of our People are living from hand to mouth. And we have to help People to live more Constructive lives where they can prepare for such events coming.
In terms of our Messages, I think one (1) of the things that has shown us in this, is that a lot of Pastors don't know how to Preach to anybody else, except their Congregation.
And so they develop a Ministry Style that is very immediate to the Audience in front of them. And once the Audience is removed, they don't know how to Preach again.
Because they need to hear 'Amen' and they are not hearing 'Amen!' They need to go down and talk to People, and they are not going down to talk to People. And in their Preaching Style, they need to lay hands on People; and there are nobody to lay hands on.
So all of a sudden, we realize that we had built 'Clutches of Ministering' that cannot hold itself together when the people are not there.
So our Ministry has been very, very immediate, the way we have done it.
... So, that is something we must Learn!
And also learn how to speak to a Secondary Audience who are not your Church Members
But who are listening in, and are not Sympathetic to your nuances and your idiosyncrasies and your jokes - Things that your Congregation will laugh at, these guys would stone you for it!
... So, learning to speak beyond your Immediate Audience, is a skill that Pastors have to develop.
So I see some of these things probably featuring prominently in the way Church is done.
QUESTION:
... Wow! VERY good point. Alright! One (1) Question on Covid-19;
Somebody says that he heard you say recently that Covid-19 can present an opportunity for African to take Leadership in the world!
And then his Question is: Are there Pointers that you would like to give the Government at every Level, to implement: to move us in this direction?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
There are Two (2) Important Events that changed the world in the Twentieth (20th) Century;
1. The first (1st) was the FIRST WORLD WAR 1914-1917.
Prior to the First World War, the World was divided between Royalty - Monarchs, Dukes and so on and so forth. And then everybody else!
And life was very structured - If you were born a Carpenter, you die a Carpenter. Your children would be Carpenters.
If you were a Servant, you would be a servant for life!
There was no aspiration, because People who were at the top were fixed; those at the bottom were fixed!
The First World War changed that, and brought the "Common People" to the Top - Made "Common People" part of the space at the Top.
... That was the first (1st) Major change in the world - The First World War!
2. The Second (2nd) one was the SECOND WORLD WAR.
The Second World War. broke part of the Political hold of the European Countries over other parts of the world.
Because by the Second World War, Europe was literally Ruling over all the world - Through Colonialism - Britain, France, Germany, Italy; all of them had Colonies, that's from Australia. Alright!
But the Second World War broke that. Because Nations saw that they also belonged.
3. This event (COVID-19) this is the THIRD (3RD); I think this is like a Third World War.
It's a Major EQUALIZER, because a few things have happened that we never thought could happened - That Nations have shut their Boarders. Even Nigeria has shut its Boarders, Ghana has shut its Boarders.
And when an American wants to come to our Country now, we would tell them: "No way, you are not coming in!"
We are keeping Chinese out, we are keeping Americans out, we are keeping the British out!
A few years ago we wanted them; a few Months ago!
Now we don't want them. And it's a Major Signal to say: We have to develop by ourselves!
So I think what this change is going to bring; the First World War brought "Ordinary People" to the centers of Power; the Second World War brought "Colonised Nations" Freedom.
This one (COVID-19) is going to be a Major Equalizer; and it's going to shift development from the East and West, to the SOUTH - to Africa!
All of a sudden we realize, and we are going to realize that we have no Redeemer anywhere, we have no Saviour anywhere.
And the people we thought could fix our problems can't fix their own problems - much less our problems!
I think we are going to see a lot of INTERNAL CAPACITY DEVELOPMENT.
We are going to see MAJOR Manufacturing, MAJOR Industrialization in African Countries.
And that is something I expect that our Leaders would push very HARD. Because we must learn to take care of ourselves!
So, I think this is going to be a Turnaround, and it's going to favour what has being called 'THE THIRD (3RD) WORLD COUNTRIES' generally!
... Alright Sir!
QUESTION: Years ago, you wrote a very wonderful Book on 'BUYING THE FUTURE', where you speak on walking in Paradigm: two (2) different largely Paradigms. You spoke about Delaying Gratification in order to own the future (as the Scripture says)
The first Question I want to ask is; What Inspired you to write that BOOK?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
Part of my burden has always been for Africa.
And also to try and understand the Factors that has kept us where we are!
And part of those Factors is what I have related to in the book - The Esau mindset that takes the Present and sacrifices the future; Jacob's mindset that sells the Present and buys the future.
And basically I talked about Jacob Nation and Esau Nation; and Jacob people and Esau people!
You know, Jacob has always had a background. One reason he has always had a background was that he was a cheat, he tried to steal a birthright from Esau. That has been the normal Practice!
But can we stop to wonder why God would choose Jacob and his Name (Israel) to put upon His Nation?
The Holy People of God were not called after Abraham. They were not called after Isaac; they were called after Jacob - Israelites (his New Name!)
So there is something about this entity called Jacob that God used to Brand a whole Nation with!
If it was a Deceptive Personality, God would not call His people by the name of Jacob.
Jacob exemplify something that many times seems to go against how we think life should be.
... And that was what I deal with in the Book.
In fact, if there was anybody who was a thief, trying to steal - it was Esau! Because he sold his birthright to Jacob for an Agreed Sum - That was a MEAL!
And then he wanted to find another way to get the birthright after he had already sold it! And he didn't get it.
So, there is a lot I can teach on Jacob that reflects the way God wants Believers to live their lives!
And he (Jacob) wasn't a Deceptive Person, as People want us to see it.
QUESTION: Alright! Someone asks here: What are the Leadership Pitfalls to look out for as an Organization begins to make Progress and stockiness starts setting in; what should you watch against?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
... There are so many of them!
I think the challenge with the current Charismatic Movement is, we build our Churches as Ministries, and not as Churches.
And the reason why I say this is, Charismatism came from Ministries.
The examples that Charismatics followed were the Ministries of Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, and all those names in the United States.
If you check, one (1) this is very common with all of them: None of them had a Church. None of them had a CHURCH!
They built Ministries based on GIFTING; whether it was Kathryn Kuhlman, whoever! - It's Ministry based, not Churches!
But the Blueprint for building the Church has being the Ministry.
The difference is that Ministries prioritise INDIVIDUALS, over Systems.
So, when you Build the System, you are building an Organization; you are building a Church, you are building a Ministry, you are developing a Gift!
And so the Individual is CRITICAL for the success of a Ministry. But after that individual dies, there is nothing else because the Gift has been dissipated; has been used and is gone!
But the Church is supposed to be a "Transgenerational Organization".
... And so, we need to start moving away from the Ministry Mindset to a CHURCH mindset!
And one (1) of the ways to do that is to consciously Depersonalised the Churches we're building.
And it's a tough idea for us, because the module we have always been is Ministry! But we need to build Churches.
Churches stay for hundreds of years - Two hundred (200) years, a thousand (1,000) years.
Even if we handover our Churches to our children (biological children).
What about our Grandchildren, Great Grandchildren? They are able to take over the Church.
And after this, our Organizations would have to be structured so that Competence and Calling hold Precedence over Biology and Blood!
The Levitical System was based on Blood Relationships; Inheritance - If you are a Levitical Priest, your children by blood Inherited it.
The Priesthood of the New Testament is not blood inherited.
Jesus Christ Himself is not a Levite; He was from the Tribe of Judah. And yet became the High Priest of our Confession.
If we were working by Blood System, Jesus would never qualify to be a Priest.
And so my Point is, I understand that sometimes your children may not seem like the most logical; and they may seem like the most Anointed because they have learned after you.
But I think we have to build Systems that outlive us, outlive our children, and outlive everybody else!
QUESTION: Sir, since you are talking in line with Ministry, I was going to ask that: They say an
Outsider's Perspective is sometimes very crucial; it's free of Course, of one's emotions.
You have spoken about the strength of the Ministries in Africa (which you have a burden for).
What I want to know is - from an Outsider's Perspective, what do you think is responsible for the Dramatic Growth of the Nigerian Church?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
I think the Church in Nigeria developed authenticity; they found a way to resonate with the aspiration of their People.
Most African Churches became Europeanised or Americanised. And so took a long time to try to speak on the anguish of their People, and to Minister to the aspirations of the People.
I think the Nigerian Church came up with that very, very early! And so developed authenticity in its Messaging and how to really speak to the People.
And what I have watched is: In each Generation, there is authenticity.
I mean, there were Churches that reached the People at the bottom of their social Ladder, very effectively.
People will just be People all the time.
So, when New Talent shows up, People would be threatened!
I think every Leadership should be aware that People are People - Whether they are saved or not saved; People are People. And they can be insecure!
And so we have to be like an Orchestra; we have to get the whole thing to harmonise - everybody trying to work to the best of their ability.
It doesn't have to be a System so Perfectly.
I'm yet to see a Perfect System like that anywhere. But we have to be aware of the insecurity system people come with and try to get the best out of everybody.
Alright! I'm going to ask you two (2) more questions:
The first one is from a gentleman. He says: I'm forty two (42) years old, I have been hopeful, even expectant all my life that Nigeria will lead Africa to emerge from Achievements to Greatness. I always heard it Prophesied and almost took it for granted.
Then he says: Recently I met an Elder Statesman in his 80s, and he said when he was my age, he felt the exact same way. At my age, he was a Minister of the Federal Republic of Nigeria; so even more directly involved!
... So, now in his life time he has known that to hope is not enough.
So, my Spiritual and Physical standpoint is this: What should we be doing to make Nigeria Great? Ghana seems to be going in the right direction.
What are the top two (2) to three (3) things that Christians that have the means, should be doing to really, really turn things around in this Country?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
I think the biggest challenge of Nigeria; and I'm not Nigerian by birth. But I know Nigeria a bit!
My grandfather worked in Nigeria from 1908, so gave birth to all his children in Nigeria.
My mother was born in Nigeria.
... And so I have an affinity for the Country.
I think the biggest challenges I see (as an outsider) for Nigeria is: Lack of LOVE for Country - Tribal Division of Nigeria are too DEEP.
... And I'm not sure how that can be fixed!
You scarcely find People who embrace the entirety of Nigeria as their Country!
You would rarely find somebody who is from the West, see the North and say this is all part of our Country. Or somebody from the East embracing everybody!
So, that's it!
That is a Major Challenge for Nigeria - Nationhood!
And I think that is why, in spite of all the MASSIVE; gifts, talents and resources that Nigeria has; it's not able to BUILD a Nation.
It's able to build People, and sometimes Companies but Building a NATION is difficult. Because I think the sense of Nationhood is weak;
Probably after the 1966 Coup and the events that came after that, destroyed the sense of Nationhood.
I think Nigeria was moving toward Nationhood gradually, but I think the sense of Nationhood is very weak.
... Ghana has a sense of Nation!
Yes, we are with different Regions and Tribes; but People talk about Ghana. And we are able to conceptualised the entire space.
So when I think of myself as a Ghanaian, I scarcely think of my Tribe -It's doesn't come to my head at all!
... I'm thinking the entirety of the Nation.
I think Nigerians need that!
I think because of that People tend to direct their strength and abilities, only to an Area where they are comfortable with!
They don't spread it throughout, they don't make it work for everybody. And so it goes into Politics where People get into Political Office, the same thing happens.
And so, that will be my understanding.
I think it even affects the Church - how the Church operates.
THE NEXT QUESTION: Someone says, Dr. Mensah, how are you able to juggle between the General Overseer of ICGC, with Local Branches in Ghana and International Branches in Europe, America and other parts of the world? With the demand of being the Chancellor of a Private University in Ghana. And then a life as an Entrepreneur; and then importantly a Family Man.
What is your advice for a Minister with the same dream of building a Church Internationally as well as Establishing an Institution, Businesses also: Is there anything you want to share with us?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
Generally, I'm not a Micro Manager. I don't Micro manage. So I have Teams that I work with!
And I build Strong relationships with my Team. And I get things done through them.
Because of course, nobody can directly oversee all of these alone; you have to work with People, work through People.
I like to give People a sense of ownership (when I trust them); and give them space to operate in, and give them space to grow in.
That is how our Churches are run, that is how I run the University, that is how I run everything.
And it seems to work!
It may not work for somebody else; but I try to trust People, to work with them.
... Of course, trusting People is always risky!
But in my years, I have developed skills to work with People along those Services.
Alright! Just one last question: Throughout this Period of Pandemic, what Prayers should People be offering up to God?
What should one be asking God: Should one be Praying for Wisdom or Praying for the virus to depart? What should we be asking God now?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
(Laughing) My view is that the Covid-19 is going to go, whether we Pray or not. It's going to go!
If you understand how Pandemics work; even if they wreck the Worst Havoc, they would spend themselves out, and it's going to go.
So, I am not too bothered with it. Although it's a dangerous virus, because there is no cure for it now!
But, it's going to go: It's not going to be there forever, it's going to go!
But, by the time it goes, it would have shaken the world.
So, what is going to be our fate in this?
I think we are going to see a massive acceleration of Science and Technology - Artificial Intelligence is going to EXPLODE massively!
Because if there is one thing every Businessman would have learned this time, it's that if we had Robots working in our Factories, we would not have shut down (laughter).
So, People are going to make sure that they would never be shut down again. And they are going to Automate at a very high level.
... So we as Christians, we have to CHANGE.
I think as human beings, we will have to work more at home than at work. We will have Machines working at work, while we work at home to control the Machines.
That is how I see things are going to be: so that when something like this happens, we don't have the whole Economy crash simply because of Biology.
So if I am Praying, it is for Wisdom to know how to navigate the Major changes that would come about.
Of course, we need to Pray that God would Protect us, that we don't get infected by some means.
So far, Africans seem to be doing well. It hasn't exploded as much as it did in Europe.
I have my own thoughts about how this is so; but I can't talk about them. It definitely has nothing to do with 5G!
But I think there are other reasons why the incidence is low in our part of the world.
Definitely, there is a Pattern in the Tropics - I think there is something in this Part of our world that is Protecting us from the virus.
And I think we will do well; I think we will survive this and we will live through it.
I have track this Pandemic very studiously. I have read copiously on it, I have memorised numbers, I have numbers of every Country in my head; I know the Patterns of all Countries.
And I have a sense of what is going to happen; I don't think that this is going to go too far.
... Thank you so much Sir!
I would just ask you to SAY A WORD OF PRAYER for all of us who have been listening.
As a Father in the Faith, Bless us, and we will close with that.
DR. MENSAH OTABIL'S PRAYER
Father we Thank You for the Grace and Mercy. Thank You for the Seasons we live in.
Thank You for reminding us that You are God, when everything else fails.
Thank You for bringing the Church BACK TO BASE: To Relationships for us to connect with one another.
And we Covenant with You to learn and to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, to know what steps we need to take.
I Pray Your Covering over my brothers and sisters who are listening.
I Pray Father, for Your Covering, for Safety; that we will come through this Valley of shadow of death without Injury.
That we will emerge Strong and Healthy. And may our Churches grow Stronger and Stronger.
Let the Church of Jesus Christ enter its finest state and it's finest Season.
In Jesus' Name - Amen!
APPRECIATIONS FROM THE HOST PASTOR - PASTOR POJU OYEMADE
... Thank you very much Sir for your time!
DR. MENSAH OTABIL'S RESPONSE
Thank you Sir! This is my first (1st) Instagram Interview.
And I will always remember you were the one who did it!
... (Both Pastors laughing!)
Thank you Sir - Thank you SIR!
Thank you so much for staying and reading all through.
God bless you!
GUEST FEATURE: DR. MENSAH OTABIL (GENERAL OVERSEER OF INTERNATIONAL CENTRAL GOSPEL CHURCH (ICGC) ACCRA GHANA)
DATE: 22ND APRIL, 2020
The Program was Anchored by Pastor Poju Oyemade - The Senior Pastor of The Covenant Christian Center, Lagos Nigeria.
Alright! You are welcome.
We will go quickly to the Questions - I'm sure you need no introduction to our audience, Dr. Mensah Otabil here;
I know he will not agree totally to what I'm about to say. But he is one of the Wide read Pastors in this Continent and in the whole world. I know with all humility, I'm sure everybody agrees.
Sir, I want to tell you, the kind of Questions they were sending in for you, one would have thought you are a Medical Doctor - you are an Expert in Infections like what is happening now, the Covid-19 (Laughter!)
I had to tell them, he is not a Medical Doctor, how is he going to know the Infections, and now Corona virus (LAUGHTER)?
But one would expect as a Pastor who is wide read with many years of experience; you know WHAT TO DO.
QUESTION: Please Sir, What are the things you do CONSISTENTLY that has helped you to stand out in Ministry, which you would like to share with the Younger Generation?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
It's an honour, it's an Honour!
Meanwhile, I don't think I did any of those things with a clear idea that it was going to lead to something. But I know that I had always been a thoughtful person.
And I spend a lot of time THINKING; asking myself questions and trying to answer them! Trying to figure out things in my quiet moments.
So, one (1) of the things I have done consistently is spend QUIET MOMENTS.
I definitely like READING, and so that has also being a Practice of constantly engaging my mind.
And I also developed a PRAYER HABIT very early in my life; and Constantly Trusting God and Seeking Him and Waiting before Him.
So, these are some of the things I have done Consistently and still do!
QUESTION: Alright! Since you got to the area of Books, I just want to ask you:
What are Three (3) Books you would say, are the most Influential books that you read?
Now, we know the Bible is No. 1; but outside of the Bible; Three (3) Books that Influenced you greatly.
DR OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
It's a difficult question to answer, because different Books have touched me different ways, and different Aspects of my life.
I would say that there is a Book called "IN HIS STEPS", that came some time in the 1960s or 1970s; About a group of people who decided to Practice 'THE CHRIST' in their Community.
And the Effect it had on the Community - Transforming it; when you walk in the Steps of Christ, and live for Him daily.
So, that would be a Significant Book, because I read it when I was young in Faith. And it formed my own understanding of how Christianity should be Practiced!
And I think David Wilcoxson's Book - "The Cross in Switched Plate" was very influential;
Because it helped me to see what happens when a simple Person trust God and steps out to do what God is leading him to do. And it played a very important Role in my Christian formation.
David Wilcoxson himself was a Major Influence in my Christian thought.
And of course, C. S Lewison's "Mere Christianity' which I read years ago, was apologetic for Christianity which helped form me.
These are Books I read very early in my life and in my Christian life. And I would say Influenced much of my Christian thoughts.
... Alright Sir!
NEXT QUESTION: Someone asked: Your Sermons are a blend of Deep Revelation and Theological Research! How do you Study and Prepare your Message?
.... How do you go about it?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
(Laughs!) I do it the same way you do it, Pastor Poju (Both Pastors Laughing!)
I'm constantly preparing a Message (2ce)!
There is no time that I'm not preparing a Message; whether I'm sitting behind my Laptop, or I'm driving.
... Everywhere in my life, there's a Message cooking in my heart!
So it engages me one hundred percent (100%) - In my sleep, I'm preparing a Message, I'm thinking through a Message!
I don't Preach everything I'm preparing; because most things I start Preaching, would have being things I started working on probably a year ago, two (2) years ago, sometimes five (5) years ago!
But I have given it a lot of thought, I have given it a lot of Reflection! And sometimes I start putting my ideas down, a year ahead of time; two (2) years ahead of time, five (5) years ahead of time!
... And start working my way through, until I Preach it!
So, I don't usually just get up in a week and prepare a Message to Preach it - It would have been something that has be ruminating in my heart, in my spirit for a pretty long time.
Normally before the Year ends; by the middle of the Year, I start putting down my thoughts for the Next Year - the Messages I want to Preach: and these would be things I had thought through for quite a while!
So, I spend time, I spend quite a bit of time Preparing!
But my main Preparation for a particular Massage to Preach on Sunday, would normally start on a Tuesday - That is when I start putting my Ideas down, and build on it Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday!
QUESTION:
... Alright! Maybe let me just add something;
So let us assume when you want to Teach; let us say on: "Financial Prosperity", I think what they are trying to say is that - You demonstrate an understanding of the Bible, but a grasp also on the Financial System.
So, may be the Question he was trying to ask is: Do you read Books about 'Financial System' as you are Studying on the Scriptures of Prosperity?
Because when you Preach, somebody who is a Businessman knows that this Person understands what we are doing!
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
It's the influence of YEARS of Study!
So it's not really when I'm going to deal with the Topic that I start preparing towards it.
It's a long process; it finally ends in the week when I have to put my ideas down.
By the process; I read a lot of Books, I read a lot of Business Books. I read different kinds of material. I read almost everything.
... Definitely not junks!
But I read quite an extensive and expensive section of Books!
So if for example I'm Preaching on 'Finances'; I'm trying to figure out something!
I would have began thinking about it, probably a Year ago. So by the time I started putting my thoughts down, I have thought about it for quite a long time!
QUESTION: Alright! This is a question that has to do with Covid-19. And the Person says;
As Leaders, how should we prepare the People; and what Key Messages should we be passing unto them to prepare them for the changes that would take Place - Post Covid-19?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
Nobody knows how Church would be like, Post Covid-19. We can imagine, but we don't know for sure.
It could be that we would go back to business as usual; it could be! - That is one (1) option.
But this Pandemic has been very seismic, in its effect on me the whole world, that I don't expect we would go back to business as usual.
I think one of the things that we have learned from this, is how to stay connected with our Church and our Church Members.
The connection is even more important than Messages because there comes a time Message is not enough. You need to connect to your People.
And so we have to deepen connection; Fellowship, Relationship in our Churches! Our relationship: Physical Relationship, Mental, Spiritual, Emotional connection.
We have to use everything, for Relationships Development; we have to form Small Groups. Because what has shown out of this is that the most effective way to keep connection to your Church is through small Groups;
Members who are already on our WhatsApp Platforms, Departments, and so on: That will be the most critical Factors to hold Congregation together.
Our Messages are disembodied now - We are Preaching to the Air. But what is keeping them is the Fellowship.
And so, one (1) of the things I expect to emerge out of this, is that Churches will become MORE Relational; and relationships are going to become major!
I mean, if you look at the Early Church when they went through Persecution, and the Church was on all forms of Persecution; they couldn't meet in homes. They kept Fellowship through Relationship.
The Underground Church in China, in Russia, in the former Eastern Block; all of them kept themselves together through Fellowship and Relationships.
And this Pandemic has taught us: Preaching is not enough to hold our Churches. Relationship is what MUST hold our Churches.
And I think the Church would start thinking of the Welfare of our People! Because what has shown out of this is that just when people don't have a Salary or a Business for about a Month; their lives almost collapsed!
So most of our People are living from hand to mouth. And we have to help People to live more Constructive lives where they can prepare for such events coming.
In terms of our Messages, I think one (1) of the things that has shown us in this, is that a lot of Pastors don't know how to Preach to anybody else, except their Congregation.
And so they develop a Ministry Style that is very immediate to the Audience in front of them. And once the Audience is removed, they don't know how to Preach again.
Because they need to hear 'Amen' and they are not hearing 'Amen!' They need to go down and talk to People, and they are not going down to talk to People. And in their Preaching Style, they need to lay hands on People; and there are nobody to lay hands on.
So all of a sudden, we realize that we had built 'Clutches of Ministering' that cannot hold itself together when the people are not there.
So our Ministry has been very, very immediate, the way we have done it.
... So, that is something we must Learn!
And also learn how to speak to a Secondary Audience who are not your Church Members
But who are listening in, and are not Sympathetic to your nuances and your idiosyncrasies and your jokes - Things that your Congregation will laugh at, these guys would stone you for it!
... So, learning to speak beyond your Immediate Audience, is a skill that Pastors have to develop.
So I see some of these things probably featuring prominently in the way Church is done.
QUESTION:
... Wow! VERY good point. Alright! One (1) Question on Covid-19;
Somebody says that he heard you say recently that Covid-19 can present an opportunity for African to take Leadership in the world!
And then his Question is: Are there Pointers that you would like to give the Government at every Level, to implement: to move us in this direction?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
There are Two (2) Important Events that changed the world in the Twentieth (20th) Century;
1. The first (1st) was the FIRST WORLD WAR 1914-1917.
Prior to the First World War, the World was divided between Royalty - Monarchs, Dukes and so on and so forth. And then everybody else!
And life was very structured - If you were born a Carpenter, you die a Carpenter. Your children would be Carpenters.
If you were a Servant, you would be a servant for life!
There was no aspiration, because People who were at the top were fixed; those at the bottom were fixed!
The First World War changed that, and brought the "Common People" to the Top - Made "Common People" part of the space at the Top.
... That was the first (1st) Major change in the world - The First World War!
2. The Second (2nd) one was the SECOND WORLD WAR.
The Second World War. broke part of the Political hold of the European Countries over other parts of the world.
Because by the Second World War, Europe was literally Ruling over all the world - Through Colonialism - Britain, France, Germany, Italy; all of them had Colonies, that's from Australia. Alright!
But the Second World War broke that. Because Nations saw that they also belonged.
3. This event (COVID-19) this is the THIRD (3RD); I think this is like a Third World War.
It's a Major EQUALIZER, because a few things have happened that we never thought could happened - That Nations have shut their Boarders. Even Nigeria has shut its Boarders, Ghana has shut its Boarders.
And when an American wants to come to our Country now, we would tell them: "No way, you are not coming in!"
We are keeping Chinese out, we are keeping Americans out, we are keeping the British out!
A few years ago we wanted them; a few Months ago!
Now we don't want them. And it's a Major Signal to say: We have to develop by ourselves!
So I think what this change is going to bring; the First World War brought "Ordinary People" to the centers of Power; the Second World War brought "Colonised Nations" Freedom.
This one (COVID-19) is going to be a Major Equalizer; and it's going to shift development from the East and West, to the SOUTH - to Africa!
All of a sudden we realize, and we are going to realize that we have no Redeemer anywhere, we have no Saviour anywhere.
And the people we thought could fix our problems can't fix their own problems - much less our problems!
I think we are going to see a lot of INTERNAL CAPACITY DEVELOPMENT.
We are going to see MAJOR Manufacturing, MAJOR Industrialization in African Countries.
And that is something I expect that our Leaders would push very HARD. Because we must learn to take care of ourselves!
So, I think this is going to be a Turnaround, and it's going to favour what has being called 'THE THIRD (3RD) WORLD COUNTRIES' generally!
... Alright Sir!
QUESTION: Years ago, you wrote a very wonderful Book on 'BUYING THE FUTURE', where you speak on walking in Paradigm: two (2) different largely Paradigms. You spoke about Delaying Gratification in order to own the future (as the Scripture says)
The first Question I want to ask is; What Inspired you to write that BOOK?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
Part of my burden has always been for Africa.
And also to try and understand the Factors that has kept us where we are!
And part of those Factors is what I have related to in the book - The Esau mindset that takes the Present and sacrifices the future; Jacob's mindset that sells the Present and buys the future.
And basically I talked about Jacob Nation and Esau Nation; and Jacob people and Esau people!
You know, Jacob has always had a background. One reason he has always had a background was that he was a cheat, he tried to steal a birthright from Esau. That has been the normal Practice!
But can we stop to wonder why God would choose Jacob and his Name (Israel) to put upon His Nation?
The Holy People of God were not called after Abraham. They were not called after Isaac; they were called after Jacob - Israelites (his New Name!)
So there is something about this entity called Jacob that God used to Brand a whole Nation with!
If it was a Deceptive Personality, God would not call His people by the name of Jacob.
Jacob exemplify something that many times seems to go against how we think life should be.
... And that was what I deal with in the Book.
In fact, if there was anybody who was a thief, trying to steal - it was Esau! Because he sold his birthright to Jacob for an Agreed Sum - That was a MEAL!
And then he wanted to find another way to get the birthright after he had already sold it! And he didn't get it.
So, there is a lot I can teach on Jacob that reflects the way God wants Believers to live their lives!
And he (Jacob) wasn't a Deceptive Person, as People want us to see it.
QUESTION: Alright! Someone asks here: What are the Leadership Pitfalls to look out for as an Organization begins to make Progress and stockiness starts setting in; what should you watch against?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
... There are so many of them!
I think the challenge with the current Charismatic Movement is, we build our Churches as Ministries, and not as Churches.
And the reason why I say this is, Charismatism came from Ministries.
The examples that Charismatics followed were the Ministries of Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, and all those names in the United States.
If you check, one (1) this is very common with all of them: None of them had a Church. None of them had a CHURCH!
They built Ministries based on GIFTING; whether it was Kathryn Kuhlman, whoever! - It's Ministry based, not Churches!
But the Blueprint for building the Church has being the Ministry.
The difference is that Ministries prioritise INDIVIDUALS, over Systems.
So, when you Build the System, you are building an Organization; you are building a Church, you are building a Ministry, you are developing a Gift!
And so the Individual is CRITICAL for the success of a Ministry. But after that individual dies, there is nothing else because the Gift has been dissipated; has been used and is gone!
But the Church is supposed to be a "Transgenerational Organization".
... And so, we need to start moving away from the Ministry Mindset to a CHURCH mindset!
And one (1) of the ways to do that is to consciously Depersonalised the Churches we're building.
And it's a tough idea for us, because the module we have always been is Ministry! But we need to build Churches.
Churches stay for hundreds of years - Two hundred (200) years, a thousand (1,000) years.
Even if we handover our Churches to our children (biological children).
What about our Grandchildren, Great Grandchildren? They are able to take over the Church.
And after this, our Organizations would have to be structured so that Competence and Calling hold Precedence over Biology and Blood!
The Levitical System was based on Blood Relationships; Inheritance - If you are a Levitical Priest, your children by blood Inherited it.
The Priesthood of the New Testament is not blood inherited.
Jesus Christ Himself is not a Levite; He was from the Tribe of Judah. And yet became the High Priest of our Confession.
If we were working by Blood System, Jesus would never qualify to be a Priest.
And so my Point is, I understand that sometimes your children may not seem like the most logical; and they may seem like the most Anointed because they have learned after you.
But I think we have to build Systems that outlive us, outlive our children, and outlive everybody else!
QUESTION: Sir, since you are talking in line with Ministry, I was going to ask that: They say an
Outsider's Perspective is sometimes very crucial; it's free of Course, of one's emotions.
You have spoken about the strength of the Ministries in Africa (which you have a burden for).
What I want to know is - from an Outsider's Perspective, what do you think is responsible for the Dramatic Growth of the Nigerian Church?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
I think the Church in Nigeria developed authenticity; they found a way to resonate with the aspiration of their People.
Most African Churches became Europeanised or Americanised. And so took a long time to try to speak on the anguish of their People, and to Minister to the aspirations of the People.
I think the Nigerian Church came up with that very, very early! And so developed authenticity in its Messaging and how to really speak to the People.
And what I have watched is: In each Generation, there is authenticity.
I mean, there were Churches that reached the People at the bottom of their social Ladder, very effectively.
People will just be People all the time.
So, when New Talent shows up, People would be threatened!
I think every Leadership should be aware that People are People - Whether they are saved or not saved; People are People. And they can be insecure!
And so we have to be like an Orchestra; we have to get the whole thing to harmonise - everybody trying to work to the best of their ability.
It doesn't have to be a System so Perfectly.
I'm yet to see a Perfect System like that anywhere. But we have to be aware of the insecurity system people come with and try to get the best out of everybody.
Alright! I'm going to ask you two (2) more questions:
The first one is from a gentleman. He says: I'm forty two (42) years old, I have been hopeful, even expectant all my life that Nigeria will lead Africa to emerge from Achievements to Greatness. I always heard it Prophesied and almost took it for granted.
Then he says: Recently I met an Elder Statesman in his 80s, and he said when he was my age, he felt the exact same way. At my age, he was a Minister of the Federal Republic of Nigeria; so even more directly involved!
... So, now in his life time he has known that to hope is not enough.
So, my Spiritual and Physical standpoint is this: What should we be doing to make Nigeria Great? Ghana seems to be going in the right direction.
What are the top two (2) to three (3) things that Christians that have the means, should be doing to really, really turn things around in this Country?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
I think the biggest challenge of Nigeria; and I'm not Nigerian by birth. But I know Nigeria a bit!
My grandfather worked in Nigeria from 1908, so gave birth to all his children in Nigeria.
My mother was born in Nigeria.
... And so I have an affinity for the Country.
I think the biggest challenges I see (as an outsider) for Nigeria is: Lack of LOVE for Country - Tribal Division of Nigeria are too DEEP.
... And I'm not sure how that can be fixed!
You scarcely find People who embrace the entirety of Nigeria as their Country!
You would rarely find somebody who is from the West, see the North and say this is all part of our Country. Or somebody from the East embracing everybody!
So, that's it!
That is a Major Challenge for Nigeria - Nationhood!
And I think that is why, in spite of all the MASSIVE; gifts, talents and resources that Nigeria has; it's not able to BUILD a Nation.
It's able to build People, and sometimes Companies but Building a NATION is difficult. Because I think the sense of Nationhood is weak;
Probably after the 1966 Coup and the events that came after that, destroyed the sense of Nationhood.
I think Nigeria was moving toward Nationhood gradually, but I think the sense of Nationhood is very weak.
... Ghana has a sense of Nation!
Yes, we are with different Regions and Tribes; but People talk about Ghana. And we are able to conceptualised the entire space.
So when I think of myself as a Ghanaian, I scarcely think of my Tribe -It's doesn't come to my head at all!
... I'm thinking the entirety of the Nation.
I think Nigerians need that!
I think because of that People tend to direct their strength and abilities, only to an Area where they are comfortable with!
They don't spread it throughout, they don't make it work for everybody. And so it goes into Politics where People get into Political Office, the same thing happens.
And so, that will be my understanding.
I think it even affects the Church - how the Church operates.
THE NEXT QUESTION: Someone says, Dr. Mensah, how are you able to juggle between the General Overseer of ICGC, with Local Branches in Ghana and International Branches in Europe, America and other parts of the world? With the demand of being the Chancellor of a Private University in Ghana. And then a life as an Entrepreneur; and then importantly a Family Man.
What is your advice for a Minister with the same dream of building a Church Internationally as well as Establishing an Institution, Businesses also: Is there anything you want to share with us?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
Generally, I'm not a Micro Manager. I don't Micro manage. So I have Teams that I work with!
And I build Strong relationships with my Team. And I get things done through them.
Because of course, nobody can directly oversee all of these alone; you have to work with People, work through People.
I like to give People a sense of ownership (when I trust them); and give them space to operate in, and give them space to grow in.
That is how our Churches are run, that is how I run the University, that is how I run everything.
And it seems to work!
It may not work for somebody else; but I try to trust People, to work with them.
... Of course, trusting People is always risky!
But in my years, I have developed skills to work with People along those Services.
Alright! Just one last question: Throughout this Period of Pandemic, what Prayers should People be offering up to God?
What should one be asking God: Should one be Praying for Wisdom or Praying for the virus to depart? What should we be asking God now?
DR. OTABIL'S RESPONSE:
(Laughing) My view is that the Covid-19 is going to go, whether we Pray or not. It's going to go!
If you understand how Pandemics work; even if they wreck the Worst Havoc, they would spend themselves out, and it's going to go.
So, I am not too bothered with it. Although it's a dangerous virus, because there is no cure for it now!
But, it's going to go: It's not going to be there forever, it's going to go!
But, by the time it goes, it would have shaken the world.
So, what is going to be our fate in this?
I think we are going to see a massive acceleration of Science and Technology - Artificial Intelligence is going to EXPLODE massively!
Because if there is one thing every Businessman would have learned this time, it's that if we had Robots working in our Factories, we would not have shut down (laughter).
So, People are going to make sure that they would never be shut down again. And they are going to Automate at a very high level.
... So we as Christians, we have to CHANGE.
I think as human beings, we will have to work more at home than at work. We will have Machines working at work, while we work at home to control the Machines.
That is how I see things are going to be: so that when something like this happens, we don't have the whole Economy crash simply because of Biology.
So if I am Praying, it is for Wisdom to know how to navigate the Major changes that would come about.
Of course, we need to Pray that God would Protect us, that we don't get infected by some means.
So far, Africans seem to be doing well. It hasn't exploded as much as it did in Europe.
I have my own thoughts about how this is so; but I can't talk about them. It definitely has nothing to do with 5G!
But I think there are other reasons why the incidence is low in our part of the world.
Definitely, there is a Pattern in the Tropics - I think there is something in this Part of our world that is Protecting us from the virus.
And I think we will do well; I think we will survive this and we will live through it.
I have track this Pandemic very studiously. I have read copiously on it, I have memorised numbers, I have numbers of every Country in my head; I know the Patterns of all Countries.
And I have a sense of what is going to happen; I don't think that this is going to go too far.
... Thank you so much Sir!
I would just ask you to SAY A WORD OF PRAYER for all of us who have been listening.
As a Father in the Faith, Bless us, and we will close with that.
DR. MENSAH OTABIL'S PRAYER
Father we Thank You for the Grace and Mercy. Thank You for the Seasons we live in.
Thank You for reminding us that You are God, when everything else fails.
Thank You for bringing the Church BACK TO BASE: To Relationships for us to connect with one another.
And we Covenant with You to learn and to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, to know what steps we need to take.
I Pray Your Covering over my brothers and sisters who are listening.
I Pray Father, for Your Covering, for Safety; that we will come through this Valley of shadow of death without Injury.
That we will emerge Strong and Healthy. And may our Churches grow Stronger and Stronger.
Let the Church of Jesus Christ enter its finest state and it's finest Season.
In Jesus' Name - Amen!
APPRECIATIONS FROM THE HOST PASTOR - PASTOR POJU OYEMADE
... Thank you very much Sir for your time!
DR. MENSAH OTABIL'S RESPONSE
Thank you Sir! This is my first (1st) Instagram Interview.
And I will always remember you were the one who did it!
... (Both Pastors laughing!)
Thank you Sir - Thank you SIR!
Thank you so much for staying and reading all through.
God bless you!
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